Power Women: Surbhee Grover Love Of Indus On How To Successfully Navigate Work, Love and Life As A Powerful Woman
An Interview With Ming Zhao
Sometimes one must live with getting comfortable with some degree of discomfort — no change comes easy and the path to evolution is going to have bumps. The entire onus of creating a comfortable environment does not rest on your shoulders alone, and one must focus on what is “controllable” and choose where the input/ effort is going to have most impact versus aim for perfection (i.e., no ruffled feathers). Some degree of dissonance & discomfort is a signal that change has been sparked.
How does a successful, strong, and powerful woman navigate work, employee relationships, love, and life in a world that still feels uncomfortable with strong women? In this interview series, called “Power Women” we are talking to accomplished women leaders who share their stories and experiences navigating work, love and life as a powerful woman.
As a part of this series I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Surbhee Grover.
Surbhee has over 20 years of experience working in retail, consumer, and luxury companies across Asia, Europe, and the US. She started her career in beauty & personal care in India with industry leaders such as L’Oreal and Marico Industries before moving to New York to work with the global consulting firm Booz Allen, Hamilton — where she advised leading luxury and consumer companies on growth and innovation — all of which played a tremendous part in her entrepreneurial journey. Love, Indus celebrates Surbhee’s two homes — India and New York. The brand evokes a journey fueled by nostalgia, culture, energy, and innovation that manifests itself in all that they do.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood “backstory”?
I grew up in India, and while many might read about India being a diverse country — I lived and breathed that fact growing up. I vividly remember my 8th birthday and how I celebrated as I always had — digging into phirni (rice pudding), served in an earthen pot, and laced with the delicate gold of saffron. This was in my Kashmiri neighbor’s house in Calcutta (now Kolkata) — I recall the occasion now as it was a precursor of my kaleidoscopic journey across the subcontinent: a journey that transcended boundaries, traversed time, and transformed me.
From my childhood in chaotic Kolkata, I moved on to an introverted adolescence in Delhi. The blazing hot summers were spent with grandparents (and nineteen first cousins!) amongst Rajasthan’s evocative landscapes. My first job in personal care, beauty and wellness, took me to mercurial Mumbai, but had me visiting far-flung southern towns and villages, where I discovered new beauty routines and wellness regimens. With every new landscape, I experienced a new way of life. With every new custom, I experienced a new way of being. And with every new relationship, I experienced a new way of thinking…and the warp and weft of my cultural fabric began to come together.
Love, Indus was born of personal discovery and rediscovery fueled by the richness, nostalgia, energy, and intimacy of my two homes — India and all that its mountains and valleys have to offer, and the mad cultural mélange that is New York. From the memories of the past to the unexpectedness of the future.
Can you tell us the story about what led you to this particular career path?
I’ve always been drawn to creation (and I define “creation” quite broadly). I’ve also realized that money and title are not my primary motivational drivers. As a result, I’ve often wandered off what might be the standard trajectory — at IIM Ahmedabad, where I did a Masters, I was also involved in choreography and theatre. At NYU Stern School of Business, I traded some of the business credits to learn creative writing. As a global strategy consultant at Booz Allen Hamilton (Booz & Co), where I advised companies on growth and innovation, I once accumulated several weeks of vacation only to spend it doing a film-making course in London. When I look back, there was always a pattern, a consistent theme to what I was drawn towards — discovery, innovation and creation of something that gave me joy.
Around 2015, I was doing a lot of strategy work for luxury, retail and consumer clients and it struck me that while several concepts, ingredients and wellness practices from the Indian sub-continent had made their way into the daily life and lattes of Western consumers , these barely scraped the surface of all the regional riches that I had grown up experiencing, and that brands from that part of the world were woefully underrepresented in the aisles of beauty/ wellness retail. In addition, my strategy consulting work and global career taught me that technology and innovation, used effectively, can significantly enhance and compliment natural elements — because breakthroughs come from reimagining possibilities. The key, then was to bring it all together — these rare riches from various parts of the Indian subcontinent, lab-designed clean chemistry and the latest in skincare tech and innovations — into potent, sensorial offerings that focused on unmet consumer needs.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
My first job was with one of India’s leading CPG companies selling haircare products. I had fought my way onto the sales team at a time when the company didn’t have any saleswomen — it was considered unsafe as we were often on the road (a somewhat generous term for the dirt-tracks to remote villages we often found ourselves on) after collecting cash from mom & pop shops in far-flung rural areas. It was a foundational experience that taught me so much. We spent a lot of time traveling to villages selling our coconut oil-based haircare products. Our consumers were often quite poor and one of our best sellers was a one rupee (about 5 cents) single-use packet. Talking to our consumers taught me so much and helped me understand their relationship with beauty, wellness and their emotional bond with products that made them feel good. (Many) years later, as a strategy consultant to multi-billion-dollar luxury companies in the US and Europe, I was struck by how valuable that early part of my career was, and I constantly found myself leveraging insights gleaned back in the villages of India when dealing with luxury shoppers in the west. Having had experience across a range of geographies, target customer income levels and cultures allowed me to make linkages and imagine new possibilities — and I never would have thought that selling a $0.05 pack of coconut hair oil would help me craft a sales strategy for a champagne brand.
You are a successful business leader. Which three character-traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
The most critical ingredient? Mental resilience. The pandemic and lockdowns hit just before our planned launch. We had to scramble to find alternate suppliers and routes to get our ingredients/supplies where they were needed all while regulations seemed to be changing on a daily basis, manufacturer/ producers were in lockdown, and our carefully thought-through channel strategy lost its relevance in the evolving retail environment. Before you begin this “game”, ask yourself if you have the resilience to rise — time and time again.
Curiosity and a (life-long) quest for learning — Despite having spent several years in beauty and innovation, I’m constantly intrigued by evolving tech, age-old traditions, consumer behavior etc. Every innovation we offer came about because our team is always in learning mode. For e.g., we’ve introduced “copper-crusted silk cocoons” (something never-before seen in skincare) — which provide exceptional exfoliation and face polish. This idea came to us as we learned about age-old, lost rituals while also engaging with leading ingredient suppliers. We toyed with the idea of what would happen if we used tech to marry an ancient practice with incredibly powerful ingredients? Everything we’ve created comes from this confluence of old and new, east and west, tradition and technology and by asking ourselves “What if…?”.
Investing in Relationships– Finding and working with folks that know their “art” and have similar work ethic/values — that is game-changing. We were able to “recruit” deep expertise in critical areas of design, product development, packaging because of the relationships we were able to cultivate by tapping into the passion of some of these partners — and this allowed us to punch above our weight (i.e., resources). Also, given how lonely entrepreneurship can be, positive relationships do more than enhance the tangible aspects of the business — they bring a ton of energy to the team. Success is not a game played solo.
Ok, thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the primary focus of our interview. The premise of this series assumes that our society still feels uncomfortable with strong women. Why do you think this is so?
Over the centuries, societies, countries and cultures have established gender norms that are deeply entrenched in thought and behavior. I simplify to make the point, but man = the hunter, breadwinner, independent, world-saver and the woman = the caregiver, child-bearer, dependent, home-keeper…these roles and expectations have existed for millennia and almost every (if not every) society bought into them. Shifting these fundamental perceptions is extremely difficult because:
The change is not palatable to some — especially those who are comfortable with the way things have always been (and likely the beneficiaries of the status quo)
There are few role models — in politics, on the boards of companies, in positions of influence
Lack of support systems and infrastructure that can help break these gender norms and allow for/ encourage more fluid choices
There are many aspects that reinforce current biases — language, phrases (“don’t cry like a girl” is damaging to all genders), articles of clothing (let’s have pockets in dresses already! It’s just practical), advertisements…these stereotype-reinforcing cycles need to be fractured.
I do believe change is afoot — but it is something that’s unlikely to happen in a volcanic / seismic sort of fashion…it will happen one battle at a time — before the war can be declared won.
Without saying any names, can you share a story from your own experience that illustrates this idea?
Growing up in India, in many households, girls were taught that it was expected of them to be docile, soft-spoken, avoid dissent (several matrimonial ads outline qualities such as a “homely” as being desirable in a bride-to-be). Things were changing (slowly) and are continuing to evolve — more in urban areas and yet, women continue to face fundamental issues such as a lack of safety and those that express strong opinions can face scrutiny and public trolling.
A hierarchical system still prevails — a recent example is that of an NGO that Love, Indus is closely associated with. They do phenomenal work in providing basic healthcare in tribal areas of rural Rajasthan. One of their stellar nurses recently quit and in speaking with the founder of the clinic, I discovered it was because her husband would not “allow” her to continue to work. He resented that his wife earned more than him and was out of the house for most of the day so he “put his foot down” and demanded that she quit. And his entire family (as well as the girl’s parents) rallied in his support until she succumbed. No level of reasoning could make her change her mind — she knew the wrath and harassment awaiting her if she fought against his wishes…
There is a long way to go in creating equality — especially across socio economic strata.
What should a powerful woman do in a context where she feels that people are uneasy around her?
Any meaningful change requires we start with an understanding of current context. So, the first step (for me), would be to understand and reflect on what might be driving the discomfort. It could be they were taken by surprise, or possibly folks feeling threatened by the implications of female leadership, decision-making or even participation. Each of these reasons could involve different tactics — so reflecting on and understanding the cause of their discomfort is key.
In several cases, competence/ content matters — so sharing informed perspectives could start to shift focus from gender to the agenda at hand.
Cultural nuances play a key role too — and an understanding of the social norms will help decide what levers to pull and how to create change
Another way that might help diffuse some of the discomfort is finding grounds for collaboration — even if they are small wins, collective movement forward is likely to diffuse some of the tensions
Finally, sometimes one must live with getting comfortable with some degree of discomfort — no change comes easy and the path to evolution is going to have bumps. The entire onus of creating a comfortable environment does not rest on your shoulders alone, and one must focus on what is “controllable” and choose where the input/ effort is going to have most impact versus aim for perfection (i.e., no ruffled feathers). Some degree of dissonance & discomfort is a signal that change has been sparked.
What do we need to do as a society to change the unease around powerful women?
We need to chip away at the biases. Conversations, studies, training — all of these are important to understand and raise awareness of these biases so they can be addressed.
And we need to make having women in power the norm — so it ceases to be an anomaly. This requires support systems and infrastructure from the time a child is born — what is taught, the access to resources, fundamentals of equality, role models they are exposed to, the training and opportunities they receive — irrespective of gender. We are talking about refurbishing the very fabric of society and this requires tackling the issue at many levels.
In your opinion, what are the biggest challenges faced by women leaders that aren’t typically faced by their male counterparts?
The list of things they are taught from a very early age (and is thus deeply ingrained) that they can/ can’t do and should/ shouldn’t do runs long…from the way they should speak, to how they should dress and what they can be. Society has traditionally created many boundaries of “acceptable” behavior and actions for women. It’s time to blur those definitions and break the mold(s).
Let’s now shift our discussion to a slightly different direction. This is a question that nearly everyone with a job has to contend with. Was it difficult to fit your personal and family life into your business and career? For the benefit of our readers, can you articulate precisely what the struggle was?
Yes — it was (and still is) a juggling act. As an entrepreneur, you feel a strong sense of responsibility for the team that is making it all possible and that drives the hunger to grow/ thrive and be able to give back to them. But your work can also become an obsession (the stakes are high/ higher than in most corporate jobs) and that can take time away from family and everyone (and everything) else in your life. It also takes away from selfcare and anything else you might want to do / accomplish. You continue to do it all at high-intensity and you’re most certainly going to burnout; and if you lapse on any of the fronts, you might feel pangs of guilt — “did I do enough?”!
What was a tipping point that helped you achieve a greater balance or greater equilibrium between your work life and personal life? What did you do to reach this equilibrium?
I can’t claim I’ve achieved this equilibrium yet (that would be like attaining nirvana!), but there has been a recent shift in the right direction. As we’ve entered the second year of business with the start-up, something I knew theoretically has become very real — the work intensity of having your own business is not going to abate…it is only the nature of the challenges/ opportunities/ demands that evolve. To be in this for the long run, sustenance / stamina is key and that requires one must constantly replenish her/himself. A few tactics that have helped me –
Creating boundaries
Clarifying (for myself) a list of non-negotiables that no work urgency can trump
Carving out the time for physical fitness / meditation — as that helps me center and think more clearly about priorities
Cutting guilt out of the equation
Choosing to have (at least) a handful of folks (friends, partner…) in my life who can show me the mirror
I work in the beauty tech industry, so I am very interested to hear your philosophy or perspective about beauty. In your role as a powerful woman and leader, how much of an emphasis do you place on your appearance? Do you see beauty as something that is superficial, or is it something that has inherent value for a leader in a public context? Can you explain what you mean?
I was laughing about this exact question with another female entrepreneur that on some days, I feel I’ve aced my beauty routine if I manage to get to the meeting with my hair well-combed and (mostly) in place 😊. My own routine is minimalist (and quick!) — use less, consume less, but make it count. I think diet, wardrobes, lifestyle, circle of friends, and (beauty/ other) product consumption should not be so excessive that it’s a drain — and yet whatever you have (friends/ calories/ skincare products) should really pull their weight. Make informed choices on these counts and they will impact your well-being and beauty.
I do believe there is a place for outward appearance — not just because of what it signals to someone else, but because of how it makes you feel. Wearing your favorite pendant or scarf could make you feel good and set the tone for whatever else you want to accomplish.
I think the evolving definition of, and broader “social permission” for, beauty is one of the most exciting developments. This is an evolution — where companies and ads do not get to define beauty standards. And as a society, we acknowledge that historical definitions have been narrow, and lacked inclusivity. We are still learning, and I think the debate, pushing the boundaries of what’s “beautiful”, acknowledging that it’s also personal, and challenging gender-specific norms — all of this is a fundamental shift that expands and evolves the definition of beauty. To me, this is not just exciting, but something that was required.
The melding of beauty, wellness and consciousness is another key aspect — consumers, companies, communities acknowledge it’s about time we paid more attention to what we put on and into our bodies and where these ingredients came from, the well-being of workers/participants in the value chain, the impact on the environment…beauty is (and should be) more than skin-deep
How is this similar or different for men?
In general, these same gender norms around beauty and appearance make beauty less complicated for men but have traditionally also denied them much choice. For e.g., make-up for men is only now becoming mainstream. The palette of colors, designs and patterns available to (and “permissible” in certain settings) is still fairly narrow for men. This, too, is slowly changing and we are seeing a more comprehensive set of offerings targeting men — a way of acknowledging their needs of expression, skin health, desire to experiment etc.
Ok super. Here is the main question of our interview. Based on your opinion and experience, what are the “Five Things You Need To Thrive and Succeed as a Powerful Woman?” (Please share a story or example for each.)
Navigating and balancing the various aspects of life is a journey. Knowing what you want — the clarity of what matters (to you), is the foundation of everything. It brings precision to the choices and trade-offs — because there are (always) trade-offs. Knowing your priorities helps calibrate what you must focus on; and the decisions related to it start to fall in place — maybe not as neatly as they might look on a spreadsheet, but at least with the right criteria and thought process.
Carving out uninterrupted time to focus on what’s important (no matter the complexity of choices and the extent of chaos) and creating a strong (and diverse) network of folks you can learn from and lean on. No one succeeds alone.
Becoming more sensitive to our own (unconscious) biases — for e.g., understanding the casual damage that words such as bossy, aggressive, intimidating can cause. Words matter — and so while “emotional” might paint a conversation in a negative light, “passionate” reframes that same discussion to be more positive. These (unconscious) biases are so deeply entrenched, that overcoming them requires an everyday (conscious) effort.
Related, we even need to evolve definitions — say for e.g., that of strength/ or what it means to be a strong woman (or man). As we outline in our #LoveIndusStrenthStories — there are many shades of strength. Kindness is a form of strength. I do believe there is no progress without empathy. To balance the scale, one must try to better understand the other perspective. “Be a man”/ “Boys don’t cry…” there’s been centuries of conditioning on how men are taught to be less vulnerable and solving for equity requires us to approach change more holistically.
Learn constantly, and challenge the status quo.
We are very blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.
Indra Nooyi — I heard (a possibly apocryphal) story of how she landed a job at my old firm (Booz Allen Hamilton) dressed in a silk sari and I would love to hear the details! But seriously — I believe she’s blazed a trail for women like me and it’d be an honor to meet her.
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.
